9/11/12 - The problem with the cameras in City Council chambers is that you can't see what's going on in the audience. And that's where a lot happened.

Last night's meeting of the Ad-Hoc Citizens Public Safety Advisory Committee was adjourned by Chairwoman Schivley due to repeated outbursts. The frustration on all sides was palpable.

Once again, lengthier video coverage than the major networks, but worth watching. Some very insightful comments and perspective especially from protesters on the steps of City Hall.

My goal here is not to cover every moment or speaker, but rather to provide a greater sense of what happened.
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know vallejo   |September.16.2012
i was hoping that everyone would ignore the troll. let him rant to himself.
Serves No Purpose   |September.16.2012
Really anon? You felt it was such a great comment that added to the discourse that you wrote it again? Really? You're no better than the people who made threats to the cops.
Anonymous   |September.16.2012
I love the image of the Korean grocers in LA during the Rodney King riots defending their HARD earned living.

Remember the video?

The Koreans had their assault rifles shouldered, firing rounds down their street, protecting their families, protecting their store inventory, keeping the black welfare mob at bay.

Long live the Koreans and all the hard working people in this world who WORK for their keep.

Long live the working man.
Joanne +1 Sharon -1   |September.16.2012
It was never my intention to be disrespectful to an older lady or the deceased and his family. However, when the family made this a public events and people with perceived influence made irresponsible remarks, I felt compelled to speak up on what I believe.

The sadness is really on more than one levels, first, of course is this violent loss of a young life which already happened. A deeper level of sadness is that not only people do-not/can-not talk about how to prevent it from happening there are people pushing this into a more destructive direction.

And also let us remember, just like
there are ignorant and thug black people, there are ignorant and racist white/non-black people out there. There are also people who are interested in pushing a certain agenda. This is an open forum so we will see them all. Let us good people of all color work together, not distracted, and move forward.

Peace.
Dialog Monitor   |September.16.2012
@anonymous, please refrain from using terms that you know are inflammatory. It does nothing to promote intelligent dialog.
Not Taking It   |September.16.2012
To all parents, black or white (time to stop the claims of racism, you've worn it out until it has no meaning). You have to actively raise your children...you can not allow them to grow like weeds, with no tending to. You have to teach them tough lessons and how to be responsible for their own choices. Making excuses for their criminal behavior does not achieve that end. Please use the description of the Korean store owners, posted below, as a metaphor for the law abiding citizens and the police officers charged with keeping our city safe. We are not afraid and we are sick and tired of
being stolen from and our quality of life destroyed. Now we're on our roofs, protecting what is ours. You may want to think twice before selling drugs on our streets at 430am. There are consequences to your actions, even if nobody bothered to explain that to you.
Oakland   |September.16.2012
The terrible end of life and the wounding
of the other young man is tragic , but
keep in mind the Families are greiveng
at this time while a Family is supporting
a loved one who is fighting for his life
and might never be the same . The anger is understandable , and no words can really express the loss and greif
people define the tragic events that occured differently
the only thing for sure is that two groups came together , one with a hand gun (an instrument of death) and one with a (possible toy gun a potential instrument of death in the eyes of the beholders) .... The Police have
the right to shoot first and to restrict your liberty . This needs to be taught to all of the young People in Vallejo
ireguardless of race . The Cops dont want to go out in a Coffin , when confronted with the high power and extended clips that many criminals poseess the Cops are scared , often they are out gunned by the criminals , and they know this . Our Community needs to
collectively rid ourselves of these fake guns ENTIRELEY and all other illegal hand guns , otherwise many other young
People will die by the bullet , leaving behind Fatherless Children and greiveing
Families . One
thing for sure is dont
confront Officers , and dont resist!
once you are nailed by the Cops be as docile as possible , you will either go to jail or to the Coroners . And to the
Mother and Family My Family offers our
heartfelt Condolences and hopes that your loss will lead to the salvation of many young Vallejo youth and their long lives ... God Bless..and be strong ..

ps:Everybody these families are greif stricken , give them some support and some time the loss of a Child is the hardest thing in the world give the Moms
some time and support and peace .
Joanne +1 Sharon -1   |September.16.2012
@Sharon McGriff-Payne

re: ...tell people like me that I should "talk" to my community about crime issues, as if I have control over all black people.

Yes, when you set yourself up as a civil right leader in our community, you do have the responsibility of talking to your community about crime.

Obviously, you have enjoyed the benefit and prestige of a civil right leader but you do not understand you also have this responsibility.

By talking, I do not mean having a beer and dinner with Romero. Several people have demonstrated their ability/impact of talking to people without
having "control over them".

Joanne's talk on Monday night is a perfect example. She did not talk more than 5 minutes total. She explained the rules, clearly and firmly, told people what is expected of them, when the crowd did not follow the rules for a few times, she called off the meeting. Yes, this is Joanne's "talking". And look at the result. Tuesday's CC meeting was much better and orderly than Monday's. Everybody benefited from Joanne's "talk". Joanne has nothing in common with the rowdy crowd, and if she can accomplish so much with less than 5 minutes' talk,
and she is not their leader; why can't you, Sharon McGriff-Payne, do something that affect positive changes? Not only you did not understand that Joanne did her talking and her talking benefited everyone, you were appalled!!

Ok, If as you put it, "Joanne spent time talking down to those assembled." How about a black lady example?

During Tuesday's CC meeting, among all the "justice for murder victim" and "He was my role model" presentations, there was a black lady, who was asking people to channel the energy and do something positive for themselves, don't wait for
other to come to rescue, get involved and BREAK the CYCLE. Yes, that was a short but powerful talk; and where were you? Busy fighting the justice for the murder victim?

Another black leader who has talked constructively is Lynn Sheridan. Look at what she said about "woman robbed at knife-point" .." Ok citizens in the area....who is this man that robbed this poor woman! Certainly, there are many who can identify this man, based on the victims description. Get involved! It takes commitment and contributions from our community to stop crime - not just our Police department. " and
look at what you, Sharon McGriff-Payne, said about "Napa man beaten and robbed during online hooker set-up " you said: " And the moral of this story is...good for him." .. no mention about the 5 criminals who attacked him and what people can do to arrest them?

What you say AND don't say speaks volume about who you are; and that is your "TALK".

If you want to be a leader, TALK the right talk, be a positive force and not a disgrace to AA community and disservice to Vallejo.
Racial?   |September.15.2012
@Just Starting

See, this is part of the frustration that Fed Up was trying to tell you. We never have a chance to talk about the "actual problem".

Fed Up and I are concerned citizens. We see a problem but we can never talk about the PROBLEM. A lot of the effort was wasted on the wording of the statements, we don't have respect for AA, using racial undertone, or Lofas is not the same as crest, defining ghetto etc... but never THE PROBLEM.

That's why I asked you "Do you see a problem?" "Define the problem in non-racial terms." so at least next time I know how to
address this problem using acceptable terms. But then I do not have a reply.

We may be using terms that you consider offensive but in no means they are malicious. We do not consider ourselves racists because the intent is never targeting a specific race - in this case black. But we are not shying away from talking about race/black if it is part of the problem.

I hope you can see the difference between the following two cases:

1. Let us find something wrong with black people today...yeap...they listen to a different music from ours ...and that is rap..rap is bad..

2. This boy was killed by
police, police found gun with him, the boy made a rap video himself, in the video he proudly showing guns..maybe rap music has bad influence on him...rap is bad.

The group who think like case 1 are racists, the group think like case 2 are not.

Some AA have too strong a group identity (black) than personal identity (individual). So when people like me talked about the bad behavior of some black thugs, many of AA with strong group identity get offended because they identify themselves with the thugs who happen to have the same skin color.

You are one of the few from AA I talked to on this
board who are level headed and even tempered. I hope we will chat in some other thread in the future.
Racial?   |September.14.2012
@Just Starting

If you think I asked too many questions about your POV or I frame the questions offensively, then let me restart.

Re: Romero's case
1. Do you think there is a problem? and if yes, please describe the problem.

2. What can be done to fix this problem.

Obviously, you do not like the way Fed Up characterizes the problem or describes this problem with racial tone. So I like to hear how do you describe it and then we can continue.
Fed Up   |September.14.2012
And now, because you are more concerned with what I say and how I say it than you are about the actual problem, you have put yourself in a position to defend it. And it seems like it's perfectly acceptable for you. Instead of getting defensive and attacking me, you should be addressing my questions. The reason I'm talking about the "ghetto" (no denying we are turning into one) is with the ghetto ALWAYS comes high crime and low quality of life. Always not occasionally. My quality of life. And I will continue to talk about it, whether it hurts your feelings or not.
Anonymous   |September.14.2012
I actually agree with you Just Starting, we should be very specific about who and what we are talking about. For me, I detest the street culture that is practiced primarily by Blacks but you also can see Whites participate as well. It is a culture that celebrates drugs, guns, disrespect and lawlessness. Watch the video that the young men made for an excellent example of how not to act.

Then after the consequences of living in that failed culture are realized, ignorant people raise their voices and make ridiculous claims about police wrongdoing. I say BULL, we don't like the culture, we don't
need the culture and our young children must not be exposed to the culture. Good riddance to all who perpetuate the misery of good people whatever their skin color.
Fed Up   |September.14.2012
Ghetto thug culture is the problem. Not me, or the fact that I recognize it and I am willing to speak out about it. Many people are aware, but remain silent because they don't want to be called a racist. You have never addressed any of the problems I've mentioned, you just call me a racist over and over again. That's fine, I can take it, because I know I'm not a racist. But, until you can look at what is going on and accept the hard truth, the problem is just going to get worse. The problem is ghetto thug culture and the wide acceptance of it from a lot of people. Rap music would be fine, if
it was just entertainment, as it is for many people. But, for some, it's a way of life and something to emulate. Stop ignoring it and stop claiming someone is a racist because they point it out. It's ghetto thugs causing these problems. Period.
Racial?   |September.14.2012
@Just Starting

It is going to take me some time to give you my perspectives on the questions you raised and I am not sure I can do all and quickly, but I will give it a try.

I think we can agree that even though we consider ourselves to be fair, subjective and non-judgmental, we know we can never be due to our past experience. The fact that we spend time here is based on our willingness to find out more about what is in the other people's mind.

I think I understand what Fed Up was talking about but not sure your POV. So let me understand your POV on several issues first then I will
try to give you my interpretations and relate my reply to your POV.

First, Do you agree a large percentage of the crime involves AA and it is more than its population share? At least in Vallejo?

Second, do you agree it is very difficult for a non-white person to talk about possible reasons for this out of proportion AA statistics? and what is your view of the reason for this out of propotion?

Third, what is you view about the current event (Romero)? about the family? about the police?

Forth, what is your view about rap music in general? and also the rap made by Romero?

Fifth, Do you
think there are problems with the current young AA? I think so. If you also agree then what do you think AA or non-black community can do to improve this situation?

Sixth, there are people on different BB disagree with Sharon McGriff-Payne's approach and consider she is doing a disservice to the AA community and Vallejo. Do you know what was the issues in contention or was it due to racial bias?

I may not have the time I want to reply to you quickly or fully but I will try.
Just Starting   |September.13.2012
Well Racial?, if this isn't about race and if Fed Up wasn't directing his comments to a specific race but to any and all people that may be participating in the activities that he has noted, then why were these specific words used?

"How do you feel when young black men kill other young black men on an almost daily basis in places like Chicago, Oakland, Compton etc? Destroying the quality of life of everyone around them. Who are you going to blame?"

"It's incredibly sad. The "community" needs to fix this themselves. They don't want our help....unless it comes with a debit
card."

"We can't fix it for you, you have to do that for yourselves. You don't want our help unless it comes in the form of an EBT card."

"The you I am speaking to are the people like those you see in the video. Angrily defending an ex felon, who is carrying a pellet gun in his waist band and selling drugs in the crest at 430am."

"You sure told me. What an idiot I am for not knowing my Vallejo ghettos."

"Yes, it is a ghetto. Especially the blocks around the location of the shooting. It has all the ghetto attributes....dead lawns, trash everywhere, graffiti
etc. It's not a street or a house or a city that makes a ghetto, it's the people who live on that street that make it a ghetto."

"ghetto thump music"

These all make reference to race do they not? Many times comments are written in code but it's clear what the person is talking about. Anyone reading this comment board would know even without looking at the video. So if we are going to have this "frank discussion" then please don't try and pretend that people are making bigoted generalizations and racist comments. I repeatedly asked about his continued reference to
"you people" and "those people" and "community". If we are talking about any body's bad behaviors without referring to race, then there is no "you people". Fed Up also made several statements about "ghetto people" that lived in a certain neighborhood that happens to be primarily AA, yet he could not point to any facts that support his opinion of the people that live in that area. It's Fed Up that continues to harp on "political correctness" which is also code for what? Please don't make assumptions that people aren't smart enough to pick up on
what Fed Up and others are really talking about.

And please, I've read Salty's comments on the other comment board and his racist opinions fill those pages. He tones down his remarks when posting here, but there is no mistaking his attitude.
Racial?   |September.13.2012
@Just Starting

re: There is no doubt that your life filled with white privilege has removed any sense of understanding how other people have been victimized by the police department ...

Yes, you are right. I did not.

Until I saw this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=iwYJOn6zgjg from 4:50

I guess I have a better understanding now. This is not a right or wrong thing, It is just a fact how some AA see police.

Art is a more powerful form in communicating ideas than debate.
Racial?   |September.13.2012
@ended up the same

After I send my previous post I saw Fed Up's. Fed Up and I caught the race reference immediately because we don't have race in mind when we made our comments. So the race reference jump right out.

However, when you hear the comments, you receive it as people made the comments with race in mind.

If you look at SD's comments, you will not find race reference either.

This also illustrate that racist sometimes happened at the receiving end. This is also one of my frustration when talking with some AA's.
Racial?   |September.13.2012
Why some of you always insist on this is a racial thing? (As if all the behavior discussed here will become acceptable by F-U or SD if done by white or Asian?) Can we look beyond the word game?

No matter your skin color, I am against thugs. I believe that's what Fed Up said also.

He used the video as an example to show the type of behavior he disapprove. The majority of the people display bad behavior in this video happens to be black. I am sure if the majority of the people displaying bad behavior in this video were Chinese or white, he will say the same.

His point (as I understood) is
people should take responsibility on what happened to themselves. Be respectable to self and others.

I do not think anyone of us disagree on this.

He made some comments about he doesn't care about if anyone call him racist anymore. He tried to be PC for many years (Not saying anything when he saw bad behavior on some AA for not wanting to be a racist) and he is fed up. He want to speak out against what he disapprove (even if that person is AA) . One person here did try to frame FedUp's argument to apply to ALL AA. I do not think it is his intention.

Let's agree, there are people out
there(any color), blaming everything happen to them on others and never look inside. They get into destructive behavior, not going to school, selling drugs, living on welfare and destroying neighborhood.

I think that is what we all want to get rid off from our city.
Fed Up   |September.13.2012
It's a widespread problem, endemic of high crime and many other issues. You're the only one speaking of race. Wonder why that might be?
ended up the same   |September.13.2012
I don't call my neighborhood a ghetto but my neighbors have some of the same issues. One side has rusted out cars in his back yard that hasn't seen a lawn mower in half a year now. The one three doors down was a meth house with crazy loud bikers that roared in and out of the area at all times of the day and night disturbing everyone. Some nights they got into fights just for the heck of it and I don't think any if them can head anymore because the music, if you can call it that, was always too loud. Rumor was that this was the black sheep of a prominent family. Oh yeah, there's the hoarder
that had his junk out front for his daily yard sales. I swear he never sold a thing. Now the house has been foreclosed and yes he left his mess in the driveway for someone else to haul away. Then my favorite, the house directly in front of me that is filled with children that she babysits. These kids seem to always be eatting outside and all of the food wrappers and drink boxes seem to always end up in my yard. But the rest of the neighbors I enjoy and we share our frustrations with each other. For the most part, we are working families and a hand full of retirees that like our neighborhood.
So by some people's definition, I live in a ghetto. Oh, did I mention that every problem home was occupied by white people?
Salty Dog   |September.13.2012
@ ended up the same

there are ghettos at the four corners of Vallejo- differing only in degree.

unlike many, i can always retreat to ma boot.
Memories   |September.13.2012
@ Wadapuk: That's what we think of the Vallejo Police Department..."Wadapuk!" Yes, "Wadapuk" they are for MURDERING people! Smile! And, justice for Guy Jarreau continues...(MURDERERS will lose...Peace Out!)
ended up the same   |September.13.2012
So salty looks like you turned your nose up for one area only to end up buying in the ghetto. Maybe you and "FU" should have bought in Folsom.
Salty Dog   |September.13.2012
Well, lets see....what does a ghetto mean to me?

It can be a single house, a few houses,a whole block or a number of blocks with a tendency to expand.

The physical appearance emits a sense of lack of caring characterized by dry grass,unkempt gardens,visible trash containers,loose fast food wrappers, ten tear old vehicles with at least one corner severely dinged and with at least one window ductaped. If fenced,it can often be that esthetically pleasing chain link to house the two to six pit bulls kept solely to prevent theft from the grow op in the back.

If you fortunate enough to buy a
house in the ghetto,you will quickly experience the human side. This includes blasting music(?) at all times of the day and night. In the evening you will be treated to the sounds of yelling and screaming as spousal abuse is notched up.Your neighbor will borrow items that will never be seen again. And other items left unattended will mysteriously disappear. You know you have arrived, usually within a week or two when you discover your car window broken. Each night you will lay awake separating out loud human voices and listening for noises at the door.

Is that enough? Want more? lol
Fed Up   |September.13.2012
As I said before, there's no argument here. It's just a sad fact. We all see it, all over town. Do you think prople with money throw their trash in the street and then pay someone to pick it up? Being poor doesn't make you exempt from having some self respect and pride in your home.
What question have I not answered?
Just Starting   |September.13.2012
No Fed Up, you haven't. But that's okay because it's clear that you don't know anything about the people or the neighborhood you tried so hard to label. You proved my point which was about people like you, who make generalizations with slanderous labels without even knowing what they are talking about. Then they can't understand why so many people get angry and frustrated.

You have a nice day and enjoy those trees.
Fed Up   |September.13.2012
Low income is no excuse for the high crime, trash, graffiti, etc. If you think it is an acceptable excuse, then I guess that's the problem. You don't have to live in a fancy house to have pride in your home and neighborhood.
Fed Up   |September.13.2012
The people who live there, who throw trash in the street and do absolutely no upkeep. I've answered every question you've asked of me, that's all. You apparently don't like the answer. I've never once personally insulted anyone commenting, and you are the one who sounds angry with your snarky remarks. I can give you more trademark signs of a ghetto if you'd like?
Just Starting   |September.13.2012
Now now Fed Up, don't get your panties in a twist. You have no idea what my standards are. I'm merely asking you some questions based on what you are stating as fact. You keep jumping all over the place and never answering the questions. I'm not talking about other places in town, I'm talking about neighborhood you called ghetto. You said the entire Lofas-Lakeside neighborhood was a ghetto marked by what you said was dead lawns, trash and graffiti. You said it was a ghetto because of the type of people that lived there. Now you say it's overridden with prostitutes. But you haven't provided one
shred of evidence or facts that you have based your opinions on. It simply sounds like you are generalizing people and neighborhoods based only on your own bias and bigotry. What I am saying has nothing to do with political correctness. You see, I'm familar with the area and know people that have lived there for years.

But now that you have mentioned Folsom it's understandable why you have such a jaded view of Vallejo. Folsom's demographics is 75% white and median income is $88,000.
anon   |September.13.2012
It would be interesting to view a age breakdown I know many low income Seniors
are served by the program .
anon   |September.13.2012
I believe Ghetto is a Yiddish slang word
Fed Up   |September.13.2012
What Ghetto Means To Me

Weeds, dead grass, trash in the grass, in the gutters, on the sidewalk, graffiti on street signs, fences, houses, trees, empty lots, more weeds and trash. Hookers on a main street through town. Watching blatant drug deals while sitting at a stoplight. Constant sound of sirens and ghetto thump music. Need I continue? NONE of this happens when I'm in Benicia or in Folsom where I have family. Maybe you should consider raising your standards.
Just Starting   |September.13.2012
But Fed Up, you thought Pepper Drive was in the Crest. So you can see why I question your knowledge of the area? And you haven't answered my questions. Do you know the people who live in the LL neighborhood? All of them? Some of them? Anyone? Or are you basing your opinion on something else? Could you answer the questions?
What Is Ghetto   |September.13.2012
Maybe these two people (salty and fed up) should define what exactly they mean by "ghetto"? Fed Up claims that it's defined by the people who live in an area as well as trash, dead lawns and graffiti. What are the characteristics of the people Fed Up? What does ghetto mean to you Salty? I'm just curious. Many people throw slang words around and I'd be interested to know why they label people and places without some even knowing what part of town they are talking about.
Fed Up   |September.13.2012
Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. I've been watching it happen rapidly to this town for five years. People who have no respect for themselves could care less about their neighborhood. You can see it. There's nothing to argue about here. We have to get over the ridiculous level of political correctness we've gotten to. We have serious issues here and people have to stop being so sensitive so that we can discuss and attempt to fix it. A ghetto is a ghetto and this town is being overrun with them. History wont matter.
Just Starting   |September.13.2012
Salty did you know that there is a larger number of calls for service you the neighborhood where you live than in the Lofas-Lakeside area? And do you know what the boundries are for Lofas-Lakeside?
Just Starting   |September.13.2012
And just so you know, your comments don't upset me. I know for the most part that you don't have a clue about what your talking about so I'm just trying to give you some insight.
Salty Dog   |September.13.2012
Yep,its a ghetto. I checked it out two years ago when looking to buy. Took me all of two minutes to look elsewhere.
Just Starting   |September.13.2012
Fed Up Lofas-Lakeside is more than one block on Pepper Drive. There are tree lined streets with manicured lawns and well kept older homes along with some not so well kept that are interspersed along the way. Just as they are in your neighgorhood. And out of curiosity I googled that block and I didn't see trash, dead lawns or graffiti. And how is it that you know the people that live in that neighborhood to stereo type them into one single category? Have you met everyone in the entire neighborhood?
Fed Up   |September.13.2012
I googled the 100 block of Pepper, where the shooting occurred, and if you don't think that's a ghetto, I'd be interested in hearing your criteria for one. Sincerely, not sarcastically, interested.
Fed Up   |September.13.2012
Perhaps you should examine why my comment bothers you so much. And I will continue to voice my opinion. I'm enjoying my beautiful yard on this gorgeous day, as we speak. Thanks!!
Just Starting   |September.13.2012
See there you go again. I didn't tell you to shut up. I said that you seem to harbour a lot of hostility so I gave you something new to focus on, which was researching the history of Lofas-Lakeside which may have given you a different perspective on how you view certain segments of our Vallejo. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but if you never have even been in that neighborhood, it's easy to see why you equate it with the Crest or think that it's a ghetto. But by all means, go right ahead and rant and rave and be irritable all you want. Or better yet, why don't you simply go outside
and enjoy your tree line streets.
Fed Up   |September.13.2012
I am not irritable, I'm amused by some of the comments here. Yes, it is a ghetto. Especially the blocks around the location of the shooting. It has all the ghetto attributes....dead lawns, trash everywhere, graffiti etc. It's not a street or a house or a city that makes a ghetto, it's the people who live on that street that make it a ghetto. Come to my neighborhood, beautiful tree lined streets and homes....until you get to the block of section 8 apartments. It's a stark contrast, but it demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about. Surely, you can come up with a better retort to my
comments, than telling me to shut up over and over again
GW   |September.13.2012
Well, there may have been noteworthy individuals who shaped Vallejo but crime has not stopped to infiltrate our city because certain locations may have historic value and prominent citizens did reside there at one time.

It appears that some areas are plagued by crime more than others and they do not seem to be the newer developments.

Jumping on an individual because they seem to be lost in the various neighborhoods comprising Vallejo is not cool. Pointing them in the right direction would be a public service announcement though.
know vallejo   |September.13.2012
excellent post just starting. when i look back at some of the people who lived in that neighborhood, it's a pretty impressive list. who can forget leon singleton? one of the most involved, outspoken, dedicated citizens a neighborhood could hope for. i wonder what he would think about our city now.
Just Starting   |September.13.2012
Fed up, you are way too irritable and maybe you should step back from the issue. Lofus-Lakeside is far from a ghetto area. It has a rich and long history with Vallejo. It is a shame that there are some people that have moved into the area and disregarding it's history. Maybe a better project for you would be to research the old neighborhood and see what impressive people built that neighborhood and it will give you some insight to why people are quick to correct your unfamiliarity with areas within our city.
Fed Up   |September.13.2012
You sure told me. What an idiot I am for not knowing my Vallejo ghettos. Funny how you ignore all of my points.
Location Challenged   |September.12.2012
fed up, the shooting was not in the Crest. It was in the Lofas/Lakeside neighborhood. Get your facts straight before spouting off.
Fed Up   |September.12.2012
You may view me however you choose. The you I am speaking to are the people like those you see in the video. Angrily defending an ex felon, who is carrying a pellet gun in his waist band and selling drugs in the crest at 430am. A 23 year old, young man with a decent rap sheet already. People who dislike ALL police officers. I am free to voice my opinion....if it offends you, that's on you. See how easy that was? It's called discourse. Now maybe one of you that enjoys lobbing attempted insults would like to answer one or two of the questions I posted below.
Just Starting   |September.12.2012
The last comment was mine.
Anonymous   |September.12.2012
Fed Up said: "We can't fix it for you, you have to do that for yourselves."

Again, who is the "you" that you keep referring to?

Comments like these are what seem to imply that you are making general statements that apply to all of our AA community. I don't think that there was any indication that there are any "thugs" or "welfare recipents" here posting so who are you directing your comments to? Maybe if you were more specific with your inflammatory labels, then people might not view you as a racist that places everyone into the same category. Then we may
simply view you as a bigoted person who hates the poor.
Just Starting   |September.12.2012
Fed Up said: "You don't want our help unless it comes in the form of an EBT card."

Who exactly is the "you" that you are referring to?
Fed Up   |September.12.2012
Of course not all black people are thugs. I never said anything like that. There are plenty of decent, smart, hardworking black people and they hate the ghetto, thug "culture" more than anyone. I'm not a racist just because you say I am.
Fed Up   |September.12.2012
So, let me see if I understand this correctly...you can name call and spit at me, but how dare I post a comment on a PUBLIC forum? Typical. Sorry if what I say angers you, perhaps you should examine the reason why. It's because I am speaking the truth and you cant scream me down online. You can yell and attempt to insult as much as you'd like. It doesn't change a thing. It just shows you for who you are.
Anonymous   |September.12.2012
@Sharon...Hitler, huh? Interestng analogy. Call me stupid, but I just can't figure that one out. Maybe it is because I am not Jewish. Don't you think Hitler would have done the same thing if the majority of Jews were black?
Joanne +1 Sharon -1   |September.12.2012
@Just Starting

I am in no way saying we should not talk about civil right. Civil right is my right after all. What I said was "we need to get some of those false civil right out of the way if we want to be real productive."

Just like any noble concept. There are different interpretations of the concept. Civil right is no different.

Aside from the different interpretations of the concept, there are also people who promote the concept for personal gain; either name recognition, business connection, status in peer group or monetary reward. Civil right is no different.

I did see
some great leaders in Tuesday's CC meeting. One man asked people to participate, come to CC meeting every Tuesday, get involved, make friends with white, Asian, Jews and Gay. Another lady asked the group to do something constructive to itself and not waiting for someone to rescue. Make demands and keep records. All these are the real leaders, the healers of the community. They are not throwing their name around and I did not even catch their names but they are the real leaders who see the problems and provide guidance.

But there are also false leaders out there who incite emotion, explain
everything that they do not like by skin color(and by skin color only and not looking into possible factors on both sides) and they are in the way of progress.

I am pretty happy to see the way Tuesday's meeting turns out. I may agree with some and not agree with others but increased participation is the only way to start solving OUR problems.
our community   |September.12.2012
And fed up, I don't recall anyone asking you for any help. The entire city is better off without your input. I would bet that you would never show up at any meeting and say the things you say to any one's face.
our community   |September.12.2012
@ fed up, who are you talking too? I don't want nor need an ETB card. I work for a living and have never been on any welfare program. My children have never been arrested, sold drugs or belonged to a gang. As a matter of fact, my youngest has shown much more intellegence and insight in his converstations about the condition Vallejo is in than you. That's your problem, you generalize and put everyone into the same box. Not every black person in Vallejo is a criminal or on welfare. Your racist and bigoted rants only show your ignorance. You think you have some show of power here by venting
your racist attitude? Your a weak excuse for a human. Until you can come up with something constructive to add to the coversation why don't you go back to whatever rock you crawled out from under.
Holier than Thou   |September.12.2012
@Sharon McGriff-Payne

You have more to say? or that's it?

Ok, what is your point?
1. You do not care to talk with people who is not using their real name.
2. You call those people coward without stating your case.

So for your point 1. then stay out of here and don't make stupid comments here and then hide behind your "I use my real name and I am not going to reply to you!" joke. since most of the people here are not using their real name and are not worthy of your consideration, take your "Holier than Thou" attitude else where.

For your point #2. Ok, I got it. Sharon
McGriff-Payne will call you names when she can not back up her own statement. No surprise here. This is her mode of operation. Another all mighty shield in her tool of trade is "RACIST". Got it. Anything she does not agree and you are not black then you are a racist.

You want to make a name for Sharon McGriff-Payne, you have it now.
Fed Up   |September.12.2012
I realize the truth is hard to hear for some people. But it's time to suck it up and take your medicine.
Fed Up   |September.12.2012
I don't call people I disagree with names. That's your MO.
Fed Up   |September.12.2012
@ our community

I will not shut up as you so eloquently directed. This is my home town that these wannabe thugs are destroying. And as you can see from the comments, many of us are tired of not speaking up to avoid being called a racist. We can't fix it for you, you have to do that for yourselves. You don't want our help unless it comes in the form of an EBT card. This is a public forum and I will continue to state my opinion. I'm sure it's very frustrating to not be able to shout down the people speaking the truth.
Sharon McGriff-Payne   |September.12.2012
Holier than Thou, Fed Up and the rest of you cowards who think like them
Sharon McGriff-Payne   |September.12.2012
Holier than Thou, Fed Up and the rest of you cowards who think like them
So True   |September.12.2012
@fed Up, I agree with McGriff, you stop the racist and nasty attacks by people that look like you and then come back and preach about what others should do. I haven't seen a single word from you when the others talk about obese people or the other nasty things they have said. Counter their remarks, teach them to speak like civil humans and then you can dictate what others should do. Live by example FED UP!
Holier than Thou   |September.12.2012
@Sharon McGriff-Payne

Stay off your high horse.

There are many reason why people may want to use their name.

1. They want to build on their name, the name bring them privileges. e.g. They want to be perceived as the the civil right leader, fighting for justice.., the leader of the community.

2. They want to borrow from their past glory because they are talking trash.

I let my message stand on itself. I do not need to use my credit established past to make my message right.

You want to use your name, you have your motivation, it is your choice. Using your name does not make you
holier than others.

Your name is just another tag for me. You can talk about the issue at hand if you have anything constructive to say, e.g why Joanne's behavior is so appalling and what you will do in that situation..and be better.

I made my case why Joanne is right, it is your turn.

Don't tell me you can not make your case because you do not have a real name. Calling people coward does not make you points known or make you right.
Fed Up   |September.12.2012
Nobody said you have control over your "community". But, you definitely angrily defend the actions of the many antisocial, wannabe thugs when these stories pop up. You should be using this opportunity to teach your sons and daughters about self responsibility and self respect. Instead you are teaching them how to blame others for your bad choices and actions.
Just Starting   |September.12.2012
@ Joann+1, Mauybe we are reading different comments because I have not read anything that Ms. McGriff-Payne wrote to say that she was blindly supporting thugs/criminals. She, like many others are simply wanting answers. Even our TH paper came forward to say that there are many questions left unanswered. There were many people that also commented to the fact that Ms. Schivley's comments sounded condescending. Some may be more sensitive to those issues and Ms. McGriff-Payne is certainly entitled to her opinion. I agree that the only course of action was to close down the Citizen's Review
meeting because it was not the forum for the people to address their concerns.

It's time for frank discussions but I disagree about putting aside civil rights issues. If not civil rights, what are we discussing?
boats, horses and fast cars   |September.12.2012
I have personally aways stayed away from boats, horses and fast cars, they are a "rich mans folly." Folks that own any of the aforementioned pour good money after bad to maintain all these follies... Ever hear of anywone that owns boats, horses or fast cars exclaim what a good investment they are, or how owning any of these foolish endeavors have contributed to their bank account?
Sharon McGriff-Payne   |September.12.2012
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - a number of you on here are no more than cowards. You hide behind your tags and make your nasty, condescending, oftentimes racist comments about black people in our communty. You get on this message board tell people like me that I should "talk" to my community about crime issues, as if I have control over all black people. Sadly, you don't even see the blatant racism in your silly remarks; the day you control your own community is the day I control mine. Here's an idea - make some of your vile statements using your real names
and maybe I'll take you seriously.
Joanne +1 Sharon -1   |September.12.2012
Joanne +1 Sharon -1

@Just Starting

I agree with many level headed comments from you and yes, we need to start to rebuild and It is most useful to stick to the actual issues being discussed

Re: name calling from toward Mrs. McGriff-Payne..

It is not my intention to bring focus to Sharon McGriff-Payne but she insist on inserting herself in the middle of discussion.

Look at this from her:
I attended last night's meeting(Ad Hoc Safety, Monday) and I was appalled by Joanne Shively's behavior.

I have no affiliation to Joanne but what Joanne did Monday night Sharon has not been able to
accomplish in her 60 years of life.

Just look at the difference between Monday's meeting and Tuesday's meeting.

As one of the young man said at the end of the video "We are fatherless generation, I do not know what to do.." I really felt sad when I heard that. He is a good young man but he need guidance. He needs someone to tell him what is the right way to engage, interact and participate with the rest of the community.

Joanne did the right thing. She made it clear what is expected of everyone. She stated the rules, clearly and for a few times..then she called off the
meeting.

People learn and learn fast if they know what is expected of them.

Sharon McGriff-Payne was appalled by Joanne Shively's behavior? Yes, she was appalled because Sharon has never done anything like this in her 60 years of life.

Instead of telling the young men the rules and the process before they are dead or injured, she fights for the "INJUSTICE" of the "MURDER VICTIM" after they die. Yes, this is Sharon McGriff-Payne's contribution to the AA community and to Vallejo.

I have issues with VPOA but Sharon McGriff-Payne's behavior is counter productive and a great
disservice to the young people who need guidance.

We know the saying that " The road to hell is paved with good intention." Sharon McGriff-Payne may have good intention but she needs to be careful on the road she choose to lead the crowd.

Yes, we need to start sitting down and talking about some real issues but we need to get some of those false civil right out of the way if we want to be real productive.
Are these acusations true?   |September.12.2012
@17:45 Mr Romero's sister claims the Vallejo PD is investigating her and possibly harassing her and other witnesses. Are they being investigated or harassed? And if not by the Vallejo PD by Whom? Who is "LaRell Davis" (phonetic spelling may be wrong) that she mentions?

Is it normal not to allow a family to see the body of their kin?
Salty Dog   |September.12.2012
After living aboard for seven years, I can empathize with the couple who had fallen on hard times at the Marina.

But, choosing that lifestyle is truly an expensive proposition to maintain. Slip fees,live aboard fees, utilities fees are just the start. Then there is liability insurance, haul out fees and maintenance costs that in total brings meaning to the old adage that a boat is a hole in the water to pour all you money.

Perhaps it is time to put the marine lifestyle aside for awhile and go landward where a ton of subsidies exist for low income people.
What You Missed   |September.12.2012
There was a couple that spoke at the beginning of last night's meeting who apparently have fallen on hard times and asked for help to talk to someone about how to save their home, a boat, from being forclosed on. What the audience at home didn't see, was the compassion shown to this couple by the "angry mob". There were many people that reached out to this white couple with outstretched hands, kind words, compassion and offers of help. Empathy and compassion from those who are not shown the same consideration.
our community   |September.12.2012
FED up, if you really feel that this "community" needs to fix things themselves then why don't you just shut up and stay out of it? I'm sure that you're familar with the saying "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". And to those who feel that they need to discuss a person's body size or educational level as if it contributes to some intelligent discourse you're ignorance is showing. You need to stay over at the other comment board where you seem to be a better fit.
Just Starting   |September.12.2012
@Fed Up, lots of big talk and name calling from toward Mrs. McGriff-Payne from someone hiding behind an anonymous name. Why not try sticking to the actual issues being discussed instead of shifting away to what is happening in other cities? There is no doubt that your life filled with white privilege has removed any sense of understanding how other people have been victimized by the police department and treated with less than respectable behavior. More than likely some of tthe police that have contributed to this type of treatment suffer from the same mindset as you. I did't hear anyone
asking for handouts. I heard a large group of Vallejo citizens asking to be heard. They have the same rights as you, to be able to come before their representatives and voice their frustration. No matter how inarticulate or inappropriate they may have appeared to you, they are still Vallejo residents that deserve to voice their opinions. Not everyone is on welfare Fed Up, but even those that are poor, still have the same rights as you. My hope is that now that some of the venting is over, that we can start sitting down and talking about sine real issues.
Fed Up   |September.12.2012
@anonymous

I completely agree with your last comment. It seems to me, parents should be using this experience as a teaching moment for their children. This is why we don't break the law or play gangster with fake guns....it's dangerous. Instead, they will use it to indoctrinate them even further into a lifetime of victimhood. It's incredibly sad. The "community" needs to fix this themselves. They don't want our help....unless it comes with a debit card.
Anonymous   |September.12.2012
People, don't be fooled by all the bluster coming from the AA community. This is how they roll. In the schools, this same behavior is repeated day after day after day. This bad behavior is taught to the young black children by their parents and so it creates a cycle of failure that follows them throughout their lives. If some poor kid, just looking to make it through the day, accidentally bumps into a black kid with a chip on her shoulder the reaction can be violent. The black kid will trot out all of the cliches that she has learned from her parents: "you disrespected me!", "I
know my rights!", "you can't touch me!". Then a violent confrontation occurs. These people are lost and almost anything they touch turns to crap. Until they can find the courage to address the endemic problems in their community they will continue to be a boil on the side of civil society.
Fed Up   |September.12.2012
@anonymous

Of course. Makes it easy to ignore my questions that way. The same way you ignore thug on thug shootings and murders. I'm not really sure how you and people like that horrible Sharon person can look at yourself in the mirror while your sons are so lost. You display every bad aspect of human nature. Living life with your twisted always the victim mindset is only hurting you and your families. Nobody else.
Anonymous   |September.12.2012
People have died, justified or not, and there are many families that have been impacted, including the officers involved and thei families.

No winners here but the families of the deceased deserve some answers. Put yourself in their shoes for just a moment. It is a state of mind that I want no part of because it would be too painful.
wadapuk   |September.11.2012
Oh yeah... bring the 1960's style retaliation.

Let's see where that get's you.
wadapuk   |September.11.2012
Hey memories. Guy was a punk. See the video links from his press release. Mario was a punk. Look at his face book. Both were "Wanna be toughs" that tried to be tough when confronted by real warriors.
Posers lose... peace out
Steve Watkins   |September.11.2012
Thank goodness for the people using their real names in important public dialogue.
I Condemn Hitler   |September.11.2012
@Sharon McGriff-Payne

However the difference is I condemn Hitler and you do not. You "protect" them using their skin color.

It sure make you feel like a civil right leader but you are leading them down the wrong road..
Sharon McGriff-Payne   |September.11.2012
Anonymous -
Just as you don't take responsibility for Hitler or any other white criminal, I don't take responsibility for thugs who happen to be African American.
Steve Watkins   |September.11.2012
The two 20-something men speaking to the camera at the end of the video were the most coherent, well-spoken people of all. What I heard from the city council & elected officials sounded like standard bureaucrat-speak ... they probably talk that way around the table at Thanksgiving also, so of course they also talk that way to grieving families. On the other side, the audience, sadly, included people who seem to fetishize victimhood. It is as if they perceive every misstep by those "in power" as worthy of 1960's-scale retaliation.

Put those two types of people in one room and you have
a TV show, not a useful discussions about solutions.
Memories   |September.11.2012
The Vallejo Police Department harrasses the citizens?! Tap phone lines?! Follow and intimidate the citizens?! Really?! Say it "ain't" so! Smile! And, justice for Guy Jarreau continues...Oh, please don't forget to call the State Attorney General's Office, on tomorrow, and express your concerns about the THUGS in blue!
Memories   |September.11.2012
Smile! And, justice for Guy Jarreau continues...
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
Fed-up, a less than intelligent comment.
Fed Up   |September.11.2012
You are appalled by HER behavior? How do you feel when young black men kill other young black men on an almost daily basis in places like Chicago, Oakland, Compton etc? Destroying the quality of life of everyone around them. Who are you going to blame? It must be horrible to go through life with your warped view of the world. And you are a far bigger racist than those you accuse.
Memories   |September.11.2012
Smile! And, justice for Guy Jarreau continues...
VallejoGuy   |September.11.2012
The Safety Committee deserves extra credit for facing that abuse when they are volunteering and have little influence over the situation. I'm not really sure what the point of that meeting was. Maybe just to set up the room and give people a chance to yell it out.
Come on Anonymous   |September.11.2012
I'm not a fan of the behavior that closed down the meeting, but we are talking about parents, family members, friends that have lost a loved one. While I'm not condeming the PD for using lethal force, and consider lethal force justifiable if anyone makes a wrong move that even resembles going for a weapon. I certianly don't blame a parent, friend, or loved one for being angry.

Even if every single officer involved shooting is justified it doesn't mean the PD has been responsive or communicative to the families of the deceased regarding explanations or reports. It doesn
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
Doesn't the Burris family own a whole bunch of low income rentals in Vallejo? How many do they own in Marin, or Walnut Creek? The AA elite is preying on their own as much or more than any of the people you call racists who are trying to make a home here and just want to live in peace without gunshots or home invasions.
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
@ anonymous...duly noted and thanks.

@sharon...Do you consider yourself a racist? I do not have any idea what it is like to black. I can not imagine being looked at as a criminal or thug just for being black. That being said, you can not justify or minimalize criminial behavior in this city. There is a black crime problem and the sooner you admit it the better. I would guess that the majority of police resources are spent dealing with it.

The ad hoc committee has no power and Schivley is old school. Do not blame her for a bunch of loud mouths pushing their agenda.

I hear
what you are saying, Sharon. No disrespect, but I am tired of being called a racist as much as I am tired of the criminal element in Vallejo, whatever color.
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
Sad, really sad...obese uneducated inarticulate people with bad manners houting down speakers like it's Jerry Springer show. Is it any wonder ?
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
Don't paint us all with a broad brush. I am an opponent of police pay and benefits as they are, but I am not an opponent of the PD. I am not blaming the police, I'm waiting for the investigation. I'm tired of the drugs and guns and prostitution in our city and I am glad the police are trying to address it. I don't condone the behavior of the crowd last night either. And I am a proud card-carrying "member" of VIB.
Sharon McGriff-Payne   |September.11.2012
Anonymous wrote: "Now, we have to hear about alleged plantng of a fake gun (haha), drugs and wire tapping. I am no big fan of Vallejo PD, but I hate black, ignorant, threatening mobs." Admittedly, I hate white racists - or for that matter, all racists. But that said, I attended last night's meeting and I was appalled by Joanne Shively's behavior. She spent time talking down to those assembled. That was disappointing. Nearly two weeks since the shooting and not one of our so-called city leaders has said a word? This has been boiling over for months - years - and people seem
surprised by this anger. The one bright light in all of this is that Attorney John Burris is reprsenting shooting victim Joseph Johnson - and because of that - we may get some answers. I also pray that our mayor, city council, VPD chief, etc., open their eyes to what's going on in our city. Diversifying that public safety ad hoc committee would be a good start.
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
Well, maybe next time, the police will get shot and killed and the majority of you fools will be happy. Let's pray for that. You fools have allowed pure hate to infect your thought process. Over what? Compensation?

It is too bad that the two people running away from the South Vallejo murders were not shot dead. Would we still be seeing such outrage from the black community.

Now, we have to hear about alleged plantng of a fake gun (haha), drugs and wire tapping. I am no big fan of Vallejo PD, but I hate black, ignorant, threatening mobs.

I hope Paula McConnell got what she wanted.
Salty Dog   |September.11.2012
I am a Reverend in the Universal Life Church-will that do?

It cost me $25 back in the seventies. If I send the church $75,they get an Arch Bishop.

Of course, I am Caucasian but I am sure that is of little consequence.
Just Starting   |September.11.2012
@ Fed Up, I think just a small hint of compassion for the mother would have gone a long way toward quieting the now masses of angry people.
momster   |September.11.2012
I would suggest having a chaplain available for the greiving family at tonight's council meeting.
momster   |September.11.2012
where were VPD's chaplains/minister to comfort the family? They could have escorted the greiving mother to the little church or prayer room located in Vallejo's kaiser until it was time see the body.
Fed Up   |September.11.2012
@just starting

Also, while I was there, there were what looked to be about 100 people in the ER parking lot in one large group. I doubt the four cops who were probably on duty at that time would be able to control them. They don't exactly follow reasonable requests.
Fed Up   |September.11.2012
@just starting

No. What I'm saying is, the hospital can not allow people in a hospital to yell and scream to the point of needing to be restrained. I understand her grief, but there is a point where it affects the other patients. They've made it pretty obvious how they deal with stress and frustration.
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
Vallejo's chaplin?
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
The council (majority) talked about the best model probably being attaching police review duties to the human relations commission. Seems to make sense and would be cheaper.

The council minority didn't see a need for any police review. Uh huh. Who's your daddy?
momster   |September.11.2012
What was Vallejo's Chaplin doing at that time?
Just Starting   |September.11.2012
@ Fed Up, are you saying this young man's mother was acting like a thug? The police and staff couldn't escort her into the hospital? The family stated that they stood outside of the hospital for two hours before ever being told that the young man had died. I find it hard to believe that someone couldn't have taken the time to at least let the mother in. The police were already there and could have provided crowd control.
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
@Pivotal moment - Excellent idea on restarting the Human Relations Commission. I was thinking exactly the same thing. In fact, here's a suggestion. Instead of COV spending precious resources looking into a Police Commission, extend the power of the Human Relations Commission to hear citizen complaints of Public Safety. The public will know who to go to instantly, the Human Relations Commission can schedule "teach the process" seminars in certain neighborhoods, and have an annual City Council / Commission joint meeting to go over a credible work plan for the year. That should take
this issue of setting up researching and setting up a brand new Public safety Review Commission off the table right away.
Pivotal moment   |September.11.2012
It's sad that some many people got killed before attention was paid to what's happening. What has the Mayor done--NOTHING

The former Chief of Police allowed a culture to develop in his department that is bad for all of Vallejo.

Communications between the City and the public, especially the AA community is virtually nonexistent. The iterim chief is trying to reach OUT but it will not be sufficient. The VPD needs to immediately start doing business
differently.

Change needs to start today and not wait for months of deliberation.
--meetings between the Chief and the Public need to
occur.
--Dr Schussel point out that 40 body cameras were purchased. The city needs to get the police union to agree the wearing of these cameras are mandatory.
--the Human Relations Commission needs to be restarted with more power and have appointees who aren't political hacks
-- more press conferences etc need to occur.

WE NEED TO PRESSURE THE CITY MANAGER
to stop being a bureaucrat and start acting decisively and show our community they are being heard.
Fed Up   |September.11.2012
@anonymous

I have no idea why the coroners office has not released the body, but I do know why they weren't allowed to see him at the hospital , as a member of my family was recovering from hip replacement surgery there that day. They were acting as you see them behaving here, only worse. And the hospital staff had to make them leave to ensure the safety of the other patients. They then clustered in a group in the parking lot. I wish the "community" was this outraged with the ongoing thug on thug violence this town contends with on a weekly basis. Then maybe we could make some
headway. If you all just continue to make excuses, nothing is ever going to change. It's racist to not expect anything more than this from people. And you aren't doing them any favors.
Teach the Process   |September.11.2012
Re: So what is the plan to "teach the process" and the timeline?

Unfortunately, this is exactly the attitude I see with many issues related to AA community.

"When are YOU going to come and rescue ME?"

Why is it all other people's responsibility for your own well being? Are you going to do something for YOURSELF?

Don't view yourself as a helpless victim waiting for others to rescue you our of your misery. You are responsible for yourself. Others are under no obligation to help you.

So I guess before anyone can teach the process we need a attitude adjustment first.
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
The mother has a legitimate point.. why didn't the hospital let her see her son's body for identification the minute she got there? According to her statement on the podium, they told her forensics were already being performed before she even got there. The interim Chief says she still cannot get to the body because it's now in the Coroner's hands. So what is there to determine that is taking so long? No wonder she had her lawyer at the podium.
That's right   |September.11.2012
@Just Starting, well said!

At both meetings referenced, the attendees behaved poorly. Nobody should be allowed to come into the council chambers and disrespect the process. NOBODY. That includes Osby's crowd of people the night he was first sworn in when they took over the chambers and shouted and disrupted the meeting and brought in all their religious folks to pray for us all. NOBODY.

People have a right to be heard by their government, but people have a responsibility to follow the orderly procedures so that everyone can be heard.
I see the change   |September.11.2012
A lot of things happened due to Nichilini being here for a long time.

Nichilini and the interplay with VPOA.

I saw the new chief was mingling with the community members after the meeting. That is a great sign. Let us hope for more change to the better.
Word To The Wise...!   |September.11.2012
Towards the end of the video, on the steps of City Hall, one young Black Gentleman, with dreads and a black t-shirt, said, and this is a rough quote "Just shoot the F*****g Police, and that's that!" Sounds like a comment worth noting, and from whose lips it came from. I'm just saying....!
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
If they are smart, they should learn from Monday's experience and express their opinions orderly. Then they will be heard.
I hope this is not too big an assumption.

I'm just saying....
Just Starting   |September.11.2012
Sorry, the unruly mob I was referring to were the Vallejo Police Department.
Just Starting   |September.11.2012
@Fed up, when you have decades of police actions that never are heard or are dismissed by the power structure called Nichilini, then people are not at the meeting thinking about decorum. They are angry, frustrated and fearful. They have not had an outlet to be heard. What may be uncomfortable to us for a short time, is what this community if been feeling for years. Hopefully someone will be able to reach them and help them understand the process so that they can be heard.

On the other hand, we had an equally unruly mob of city employees and their relatives yelling and trying to take
over a City Council meeting. They made threats to members of the public and one woman almost started a fight. These were so called "educated" people. They knew the protocol for the meeting yet they still "displayed a complete lack of self control and self respect and inability to function by the rules of the meeting and have no decorum whatsoever". "How dare anyone try to impose rules on them?! They are displaying all of it here, in front of everybody, with no shame at all."
Their issue? A citizen's revew board.

Yet you seem to forget all about that!
Word To The Wise...!   |September.11.2012
Let's hope that the COV has more police on hand at the City Council meeting than just one unarmed cadet. Things could get out of hand. I'm just saying....
Clarke Johnston   |September.11.2012
For too long, Vallejo has been defined by the likes of of Mac Dre, ODB, The Romper Room Gang, and other thug influences. All the rank and file, the rest of the "Silent Majority" citizens have heard, by means of objection to the mid-90's reign of terror at Pizza Parlors and banks...was silence. Not ONE word, one peep or rejection of the gangsters gone wild. Either from the community OR our Mayor. THAT was okay, you see?*** Yet, again, it appears that of this meeting's occurrence, that the sister or family related to Mario HAVE NOT yet made a statement. Why Not? Get yourself and attorney
and show up. Get on the record. Do the right thing here. If your version of the facts are true, accurate and undeniable, that what are ya'll afraid of? Put up, on the official record of the court. Be heard, through the proper channels.
Teach the Process   |September.11.2012
re: when is COV, GOBs and VIBers going to make it out..

Why wait? Why ask for other people? you can do it too.. If you have not done in the past, you can do it now.

I can tell you from personal experience why non-black people do not want to get involved in things like that. I had several occasions that I suggested something that was not agreeable by some in AA community and was call a racist. I am sure you know this as well..a segment of the AA community explain everything that happened to them by their skin color (and nothing else)...so the result is "it is impossible for me to do if I
am not black" and "why bother?"

Maybe you should ask AA leader like Osby and a parade of Rev. why didn't they do something.
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
@Teach the Process - And when is COV, GOBs and VIBers going to make it out there to certain neighborhoods, in your words, to "teach the process" to them? The black community in Vallejo's history have been marginalized and segregated to remain in certain parts of Vallejo, like South Vallejo and The Crest, well away from downtown or waterfront. So what is the plan to "teach the process" and the timeline?
Teach the Process   |September.11.2012
re: the black community in Vallejo has never been listened to

I believe many wanted to hear their pov but a protocol needs to be followed. The outlet is there, you just need to learn to use it.

I hope the organizer will explain the procedure to the crowd and people can follow the instructions.

It does not need to get ugly.

However painful, this is part of the educational process.
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
This looked bad for the City with all-white Committee and majority ethnic angry crowd, captured by Bay Area media, NAACP in the building. The victim's mother was wise to have her lawyer on the podium with her asking questions. Agree that tonight's Council meeting is going to get ugly real quick.
Fed Up   |September.11.2012
Wow. This is really sad. They have no idea that they are displaying a complete lack of self control and self respect and inability to function by the rules of the meeting and have no decorum whatsoever. Kind of the same situation Mario found himself in by not following the laws of our supposedly, civilized society. How dare anyone try to impose rules on them?! They are displaying all of it here, in front of everybody, with no shame at all. Is there such a word as devolution? If not, there should be.
Clarke Johnston   |September.11.2012
Not much of a pledge of allegiance. Especially not hearing the "with liberty and justice for all" part.....
Anonymous   |September.11.2012
Sounds like the black community was well informed and educated on the issues, as far as this video is concerned. I agree that the black community in Vallejo has never been listened to or respected. Valljo citizens need an outlet other than this to properly communicated their concerns to city leaders.
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