Flash: 10/26/12 -- Vallejo police have arrested Maude Love (male) in connection with "intentionally set fires" at Cooley Riolo Mortuary, Taylor Chapel and the Law Offices of Micheal Thompson and Osby Davis.

Vallejo PD press release HERE

An open letter to the Vallejo City Manager, Chief of

Police, Mayor and City Council Members

Assistance from San Jose State University

 By Robert Schussel Ph.D

10/25/12

The purpose of this letter is to encourage the City of Vallejo to collaborate with the Department of Justice Studies at San Jose State University. (see attached letter from Dr. Correia) It is my hope that a long-term partnership between the City of Vallejo and San Jose State University will occur. I am willing to help facilitate the initial meeting.

Purpose

The purpose of this joint effort would be to help heal our community by rebuilding trust and reestablishing the legitimacy of the police in the eyes of the community. The goal is more effective policing and better community relations.

Background

As part of his presentation about Community Policing and Communications to the Ad Hoc Citizens Public Safety Committee on October 17, 2012, Dr. Mark Correia, Chairperson of the San Jose State University Department of Justice Studies offered his department's assistance to the City of Vallejo.

Specifically, Dr Correia offered to conduct surveys in the community and police department, hold focus groups, make recommendations and issue a report under the aegis of the University. (See below for more details.)

Dr Correia conducted a similar type of effort for the City of Oakland. Attached is a PDF of the Oakland Police Department Resident Opinion Survey issued January 2010. In addition, Dr. Correia provided consultation services to the Oakland Police Department and authored a report for them in 2009 entitled Final Report of the Oakland Police Department’s Area Command Patrol Strategy.

In a follow-up discussion to his presentation, Dr Correia stated that he had also conducted interviews with the City of Oakland administrators/officials and over 250 police officers. He also conducted focus groups with community leaders. Follow-up surveys were conducted to determine the effect the changes made had on public perception.

Advantages of a Collaborative Effort

Advantages of this collaboration for the City of Vallejo are having a highly credible organization conduct surveys, focus groups and interviews at relatively little cost. Dr Correia and his department has the experience and expertise to assist our City and develop long term solutions to solve the conflicts and communication issues we are currently facing. .

For San Jose State University, a collaborative effort would help the University accomplish its mission to provide service/help to communities in California. The effort would also provide an opportunity for their students to conduct and publish research findings.

Proposed Effort

Dr Correia feels the following methodology would provide the information required for better understanding of the current problems so that appropriate changes can be implemented:

1) Go to the community sessions and open forums being provided by the Department of

Justice to get a feel for the community’s issues/concerns.

2) Conduct focus groups with community leaders.

3) Survey residents, police officers and city administration (including city

councilmember).

4) Issue reports and recommendations based on the above. Consult with the various

constituents involved.

5) Track changes over time and offer additional input based on these new

recommendations.

Mr. Keen, please let me know what would be a good date and time to get people together to discuss Dr. Correia's proposal further.

Them

Comments

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THEMISTAKENCRIMINAL   |November.08.2012 well going over these lovely post logs i am proudly here to tell u officers hernandes, mkcree, joseph,tribbles n puchi along with sevral others in the gang enforcement are crooked ass **** no warrents rifles in peoples faces alley beat downs cocain users during raids an then saying so during booking the video of jared huey screaming no then murderd tell me is it the gangs or is it vpd manipulating an framing people vpd #1 criminal gang in vallejo an were do they meet starbucks on admiral calihand

voter2   |October.31.2012 The idea that a government agency has to pay for the schooling of a person before that person can qualify for the job is insane. That would be the same in the private sector to say that Kaiser should have to pay for a person to attend medical school. How do these practices in government only, it seems, not only get started, but continue! This is insanity.

wharf rat   |October.29.2012 hey silas got any new theory's on the Mayors arson case LOL wr

silasbarnabe   |October.29.2012 LOL! @WR, How foolish you are to think that I or any other citizen would be involved in a 100 MPH chase or a shootout. I wouldnt be involved in such activities whether we have a Police Department or not. Now move along and go on your ride along, as if such activities produce an opinion like yours they appear to be a total waste of time. Now go toot your siren.

Retired_IBEW   |October.28.2012 @Wharf - except for a few cadets Vallejo doesn't send anyone to the Academy, they only hire people who went to the Academy on their own (or were sent by another agency). Since they attend the academy on their own, I guess it doesn't matter which one they graduate from. And I am not sure how it is now, but in the past I don't think many Officer without a bachelors degree were hired. In Contra Costa County they have two classifications of hiring for Deputy Sheriff. Recruit-which means the applicant has not been through the academy and lateral which means they have already attended the academy. A recruit in that county earns 75% of the wages of a beginning deputy while they attend the academy. If they successfully graduate they are sworn in as peace officers and their wages are increased. The benefit is that you can recruit from a larger pool of candidates if you are willing to send them to the academy, and you have better success recruiting locally. The obvious downside is that if you don't recruit people who are capable of completing the academy you have wasted money by paying them a salary while they are attending. One Police Chief I spoke to said he would rather take the chance with recruits than to take on someone else's "problem child" which is what he said you get when you hire cops from other agencies.

Retired_IBEW   |October.28.2012 GW yes it is a requirement to attend an accredited Police academy. But you can hire them, then send them to the Academy and when they graduate they are fully qualified VPD Officers. The way hiring is done now is that you have to have completed the academy on your own. It's easier to recruit within the City if the PD is willing to send them through the academy. Most newly hired officers now come from other agencies and frequently continue to live in another community. They are probably great cops but I don't think they ever have the understanding and relationship with the public that a local hire has.

wait   |October.28.2012 This concept CANNOT just be a one way street!

wharf rat   |October.28.2012 Hey silas 'lay off the hooch will ya" I clearly stated that a ride along is very informative and if done not to worry as "they will keep you safe" this means you will not be involved in a shootout or a 100 mph pursute . There are many myths and misconceptions about Police work a ridealong is a good window into the real world of law enforcement . I dont know where the hell you and your boy wonder got the idea that I am a VPOA supporter and then refereed to as a slime ball your comments detract from DR Shussels exlnt and hopefull article perhaps some time in spammys sandbox would suite you better .

silasbarnabe   |October.28.2012 How many times does one need to read your VPOA advertisements to know where you are coming from? There have been many slime balls over the years that have been VPOA apologists what makes you think you are so special around your obvious attempts to sprinkle reality with ride alongs? Been there done that try riding along with the taxpayers of Vallejo and then and only then maybe will you understand.

wharf rat   |October.28.2012 @ silas are you boozing this evening ? you seem to have your wires crossed or is your hate for VPD so intense that you hear voices . I am neither an apologist nor am I paid by VPD the mere suggestion is nuts please read my previous posts before you further vent your spleen "that is if you have the comprehension to do so"

Firebug   |October.28.2012 Matt Mustard is paid to be an idiotic supporter of the VPD must we be inundated with a complete idiot that works for the VPD free of charge?

silasbarnabe   |October.28.2012 @WR, What do you care about anything on this subject? You stated that you feel safe with the current VPD. All of that is fine with me..most VPD apologists are handsomely paid to look so foolish..I hope you aren't making a fool of yourself for free.

GW   |October.28.2012 It is my understanding that to become POST certified in California attending an acredited Academy is a must, not a choice. Vallejo did send Cadets to the Oakland Academy in the past because it is one of the best in California and if memory serves me right we, Vallejo, do have attendees at this time that we hopefully will employ once they graduate. We lost our Cadet investments to other jurisdictions due to cuts in the budget. It would stand to reason that after investing in a Cadet and sponsoring him/her to attend an Academy that that investment would return to those that guided it along for some years. At this very time we have an AA Cadet who is very promising and already an assett to the local community. I hope that after completion of the required programs, she will remain in Vallejo.

wharf rat   |October.28.2012 @ Silas There you go again , I have posted NOTHING about VPD diversity at all, and the safe refrence was associated with a 'ride along"situation the best way to fully understand the street level Police operations and their customers . Please work on your reading comprehension . Thanks wr

silasbarnabe   |October.28.2012 @Wharf Rat, What do you care about the diversity of the VPD, didn't you just say they made you safe? @Retired_IBEW I seem to remember that Chief Nichelini discouraged Officers that used Napa College as part of their educational pathway to be Police Officers. I remember that he chose that VPD applicants would use the same educational process as Oakland PD (Conveniently where Chief Nic came from), and look at the mess they are in with their so called highly trained Officers. Like it or not if Attorney John Burris is here we will soon be under the Supervision of the Federal Government like Oakland. Afger all the huffing and puffing about MMD raids, and the killing of unarmed civilians I fear Vallejo taxpayers will be feeling the burden of paying for the mistakes of Our current Mayor, Hannigan, Wilson, Bartee, and Sunga in supporting a department with a track record that reflects a bunch of reckless renegades.

wharf rat   |October.28.2012 @ Retired IBEW As always great post "we have learned something new" I understand a Bachelors Degree is a un-written requirement as well what Academy do they attend ? and are there Scholarships available ? we pay TOP dollar are we getting the very best or is it a cronyism system ?

Retired_IBEW   |October.28.2012 @Anonymous, actually lack of diversity in police hiring is caused by something entirely different. Vallejo made a decision to only hire people who have finished the academy which is a full time 27 week course that you cannot attend while working full time. You will find far greater diversity in places like Alameda county where they hire recruits, and pay them a reduced salary while they attend the academy. That model tends to attract more ethnic minorities. When an agency decides to make completion of the police academy a requirement for employment they tend to attract a disproportionate number of upper middle class caucasians because that is the group which is most likely to have the means to support themselves for 7 months with no salary, and at the same time pay the tuition and associated expenses of attending the academy.

Anonymous   |October.28.2012 @ simple The diversity (or lack of) among PS applicants more parallels the diversity you will find among pilots within the military. It has nothing to do with racism. It has everything to do with the quality of the applicant pool. The ratio of applicants:rejections is much higher for white males than any other group. Same with the pilot analogy. The same is true in professional sports (reversal of ethnic groups). It is in the best interest of the respective professions to pick the best available. Picking the best does not facilitate rainbow and unicorn and warm and fuzzy feelings. You want the best or the politically correct?

GW   |October.28.2012 @ simple Thank you for clarifying, no harm intended, all's good. I am as passionate about issues as the next person. I am attempting to stay within acceptable bounderies and am usually not in favour of verbal abuse, as that path never ever solves issues being discussed. Vallejo has many problems that with certainty will not be resolved just because we are making an attempt to put our 5 cents into the pot. With respect to the blog theme, I believe that Dr. Schussel's letter to the present city leadership was well intended, but a tad premature. The presentation by Dr. Correia was of great interest as well as his offer to assist Vallejo in the future. However the presentation was given to the whole committee and the chain of command should have been observed, the final recommendations submitted to council and followed up by those tasked to do so. Well intended letter but not at the right time. I will not speculate as to the reason why, but I am certain somebody will contribute to the kitty!

Retired_IBEW   |October.28.2012 The act of "policing" is by nature reactive; it is very unusual that a Police Officer can keep you safe. The letter that Dr Shussel attached is a little too vague for me to understand exactly what the collaboration would accomplish..hopefully it would bring VPD into the 21st century and begin a program where scarce police resources are utilized more wisely. The key to that is 'problem-oriented policing' which relies upon advanced analytics and good intelligence to predict crime patterns and intervene. This usually involves identifying the real trouble makers, and making their lives as miserable as possible but at the same time looking at social issues that might be contributing to their criminality an offering assistance in addressing those problems, i.e. substance abuse. It's very much a carrot and stick approach but it is directed at the core troublemakers, not at everyone in an area who 'might' be up to no good. Google it, it's an approach that has worked well in many cities. It is based upon the same kind of predictive modeling that allows Walmart to know how which people will buy a certain product and how much of it they will buy

Firebug   |October.28.2012 @WR, Saying that VPD is keeping someone safe without naming specific incidents and how they relate to certain individuals is a laughable excuse for an argument, and sounds like it is coming from Matt Mustard.

wharf rat   |October.28.2012 @Silas once again You select the Inflammatory and confrontational platfrorm NOT the inclusive position .. You must understand that many of our Police Officers would like to not be shot at and have productive shifts , with no life and death situations being foisted on them .. In fact YOU should do some drive alongs to really understand the Street level WAR that exists every night .. Dont worry the Cops will keep you safe .. and you can post your observations on VIB , this would be a major contribution to the understanding of what happens , every night .. And the daily chores that our Police officers deal with every day ...

Mr :O   |October.27.2012 If the problems with the Vallejo Police are caused by to much of the budget going to previous and current employees salaries and benefits what can possibly be gained by what you are planning? You will never be able to explain to them that they need to take large pay and benefits cuts. "There is no model for (the Vallejo Police Department). There's nothing like this in California." "I'm still a little perplexed how it's working..." - Vallejo Chief of police Kriens.

simple   |October.27.2012 GW....my sincere apology I am new to this and accidentally put your name in the box instead of my own in an attempt to respond. I am sorry and certainly not trying to cause anyone grief.

silasbarnabe   |October.27.2012 Wow GW, I have had cheetoh like personas post as me before so I can relate. I think the San Jose State Intervention is long overdue. When an attorney of John Burris stature gets involved in a case I would expect that the VPD screwed up in some of these shootings. It is only a matter of time before the Feds get called in like Oakland. That kind of oversight would make it difficult to run a Police Department. Was the Old Chief a complete incompetent screwup? YES, do we have some incompetent Psychos on the VPD now? YES. If we could work with SJSU maybe we could rid the department of such bad employees and succeed in winning back the trust of the community with an effective Policing model. I see this as the best alternative to losing in court against Burris and having the Feds come in. I still shake my head as to why the VPD was involved in the MMD raids, and the six Police homicides, lets hope there is still time to fix this mess in our Police Department without the sycophant behavior of those like our Mayor and Erin Hannigan that ignore the problems and hand out raises guaranteeing lower staffing and bad behavior.

GW   |October.27.2012 to the previous poster Why are you using my handle to post your opinion? What response was rude in your opinion? Hiding behind somebody elses name to post is acceptable?

GW   |October.27.2012 So minorities want to work for every city except for Vallejo?? Its really NOT an issue for me because I am a law abiding citizen. I really never thought about it until I read some of the other comments on other sites bashing the city of Vallejo. I support our police officers and I know they have a tough job. You don't have to be so rude with your response. I was just sharing my thoughts and wondering if anyone else felt the same. I will say I am glad the old Chief is gone. I don't think he ever cared about the citizens of Vallejo. The new Chief seems like he is trying to clean up a horrible mess left behind.

silasbarnabe   |October.27.2012 "Body types, strengths abilties" There are cops and firemen of all shapes and sizes, so your certain body types reminded me of Jimmy the Greeks quote.

GW   |October.27.2012 Silly man, I thought you may bring a different twist to the term. I said "favored" not "abilities".

silasbarnabe   |October.27.2012 @GW, Google is your friend.

GW   |October.27.2012 Explain, I am not Greek nor Jimmy!

silasbarnabe   |October.27.2012 @GW "Has it ever occurred to anyone that certain jobs are favored by specific groups of individuals, considering specific education levels, body type and strengths, willingness to perform on a physical level, mental level, etc.?" Reminds me of "Jimmy the Greek"

GW   |October.27.2012 @ simple You state: I think some of the posters including you think I am trying to make a big deal out of the lack of minorities in the Vallejo police department. I believe it is a major concern to you, because if it were not, why does it sadden you to the point to post about it. Although you really do not know the racial make up of the local department you believe other cities are far more advanced with respect to employing an equal amount of all races. Has it ever occurred to anyone that certain jobs are favored by specific groups of individuals, considering specific education levels, body type and strengths, willingness to perform on a physical level, mental level, etc.? Why is the weeding out of applicants and the process to find those suitable so arduous and may I add so costly? Many want to have a great paying position including the benefits later in life, but are falling short of being able to tolerate the duties involved. I have often wondered why anyone would freely choose to enter the field of law enforcement or for that matter any job that actively interacts with the general public. Whatever racial or ethnic background these men and women have they have to be able to tolerate anything getting thrown their way by a community as divided as Vallejo's population ....and from what I have personally observed that it the most difficult situation to be in.

Anonymous   |October.27.2012 Liberalism is a mental disorder. Only people with a flaw in their mental state can distort reality to fit their idealistic social and political view of the world. Yes, it would be wonderful if we could punish law enforcement to a point where the dysfunctional people in the town would have an epiphany and suddenly behave in a productive and civil manner. An analogy can be imagined as a small hospital with about 100 doctors and nurses. The patients coming into the hospital have gun shot wounds and knife wounds but people are unhappy that the patients leaving the hospital have scars. "It horrible, it looks like these patients were in gun fights and knife fights. The doctors should be sued!" The most evil act that can be perpetrated on poor black people is to patronize them and tell them that it's someone elses fault for every shortcoming that they experience in life. The teachers are bad, the cops are killers, the world is racist and owes them a living. It's a horrid patronage and a genocidal road map followed by fools. Here's a trip for poor people no matter what their skin color. Fathers, support your children! Fatherless households are at the root of most black community problems. Act like men, not like wandering farm animals.

To Warf Rat   |October.27.2012 You have it backwards. Nichelini wasn't running the department. The VPOA was running the department and that is the reason the VPD is in its current sorry state of disrepair. Nichelini was just the enabler.

simple   |October.26.2012 GW...It would be nice to see more representation across the board. I am not saying the race issue is an issue for me. As long as I get help thats all that matters. However, its interesting how I have seen more diversity in other cities that I have visited. I think some of the posters including you think I am trying to make a big deal out of the lack of minorities in the Vallejo police department. It was simply an observation. I was just wondering why there are so few that's all. I disagree that diversity is over rated. I think its necessary for many reasons mainly for effective communication and rapport with all ethic groups within the city.

silasbarnabe   |October.26.2012 All this is very unfortunate to me, we had the chance to make relations right and instead our old Chief of Police chose to exacerbate relations by raiding pot clinics destroying surveillance equipment, condoning shooting folks, and minimizing the aftershocks by simply putting his men on leave with pay pending an investigation. Now that he has fled this city we are left with cleaning up his dirty diapers. Our City already paid out 4 million dollars to a person that the judge found suffered from illegal search and excessive force at the hands of our Police Department, and now in addition to the slap in the face we received from the old clowncil majority (Hannigan, wilson, Bartee, Sunga, and Uncle Osby Davis) that gave VPD raises during bankruptcy for a job well done, will the taxpayers now face a new group of lawsuits and settlents costing us taxpayers millions. I want to beleive the more conservative posters here like Salty Dog, but who will come into our city and attempt to fix our current get rich Police for killing ghetto trash mentality? We have a majort problem here, and i respect that some of us are getting blasted by boom boxes, but when will we as community deal with our boys in blue simiplistic behavior of blasting every perceived enemy in sight while they collect (by their own wishes) some of the highest compensation at the expense of less officers?

GW   |October.26.2012 The diversity thing is highly overrated. I want to have someone available that will help me and when I do make that call it will not be made frivolously! I really will require that help and the colour of the person

GW   |October.26.2012 @ simple No, I really have not noticed a lack of diversity in our police department because things of that nature are not on my mind when I do have to interact with an officer. Those that put a value on skin colour and want to know how many of each are represented across the ranks could request a break down of the department from the City Manager. Without racking my brain, Lieutenant Kenny Park (Asian), Lieutenant Sid De Jesus (Hispanic), Sergeant Herman Robinson (AA) and others officers of diverse background come to mind. Say, does it matter to you who will come to your aid in time of need may it be in the form of a fireman, a police officer, doctor, ambulance driver or any other simple human being? Are you refusing assistance from any of the previously mentioned if he/she is not a person of colour but is able to perform the services you require? I do not believe so. Furthermore, what does the pigmentation of ones skin have to do with the ability to do a job, any job? The diversity thing is highly overrated. I want to have someone available that will help me and when I do make that call it will not be made frivolously! I really will require that help and the colour of the person

wharf rat   |October.26.2012 @ Anon with all due respect your comments show a failure to see the "big picture" the letters from both DR Shussle and DR Correia adress so well many of the issues that require attention and map many pathways toward the positive changes that deserve consideration and or implementation . Dr Correia is proposing a comprehensive detailed approach to assist us in charting our course "not anything touchy feely" rather an intellegent mature "roll up the sleevs" and get the job done approach . While you are critical of DR Shussel for going around the Committee in fact we should be appreciative of His time and energy invested in establishing contacts with experts that can help us with a very challenging project , one that is way overdue and probably cant be done from within "a brain tumor requires a brain surgeon" . Keep in mind we are heading for an influx of parolies in town and must approve a permanent Police Chief in short order , a better understanding of the real Criminal Justice picture will be invaluable for this selection and in fact might attract a "real ringer" . For some time we have been paying for a Cadillac while driving a Pinto Dr Correias organized and systematic proposal is exactly what is needed equiped with a bluprint we can rebuild or remodel , with no plan we are just pi----g in the wind . We pay for and could have the best Police orginization in the State, with safe streets and a better future for all . I commend DR Shussel for all his hard work on our behalf and am very pleased we have a real brainiac on the job .

Sharon McGriff-Payne   |October.26.2012 There are a lot of people concered about this issue. This is a one of a number of efforts that's now underway to help bring about some change in our communty. I pray our city leaders will listen to Dr. Mark Correia as well as other folks in our community regarding improving law enforcement and community relations.

Anonymous   |October.26.2012 Mr. Schussel, are you not the vice chair of the citizen public safety committee which is suppose to look at all of these issues and present a final report in December to the full City Council? Why are you working around your own committee? And I am not impressed with any study or work done with Oakland PD; they have not cleaned up their problems over the last few years. This is just touchy, feeling stuff - a waste of time and money.

simple   |October.26.2012 wharf rat....amen

wharf rat   |October.26.2012 Not unlike the monumental problems our Nation has faced due to the reign of Bush and now knowing just how hard it is to do repair and damage control after the fact. We are in a simular situation locally with Law enforcement following the reign of Nichelini and the lousy culture he promoted within the PD much to the detrement of both the Officers and our Community . We must never allow one person to have such overriding influence over this department or public safety et: all Knoweldege is POWER and we need all we can get reaching out to other sources and benefiting from their "best practices and experience" is just the smart thing to do . What DR Bob is promoting is exactly the smart thing to do ,Research,Discover,Learn and implement any thing less would be a return to the mono mental state that contributed to a flawed culture .

simple   |October.26.2012 I am not suggesting that will solve our problems I was just saying it would be nice..thats all. Maybe some people would feel more comfortable knowing a wider perspective will be understood and brought to the table to help mend the damage. I don't mean just hire anyone based on their ethnicity but also qualified. Most importantly willing to try and communicate with us (citizens). I think if we knew our police force then that would be a great start to build trust.

Not So Simple   |October.26.2012 I have no problem of hiring for more diversity but your simplistic thinking that diversity will solve Vallejo's problem is just not so. No need to look far, Oakland is a good counter example of your simple thinking.

simple   |October.26.2012 I hope they hire more minority officers. I only see a few African American officers and a few Hispanic officers. I don't think I have seen any Asian officers. A good start is to have diversity. I am African American and it saddens me to see a city that has such a large African American population have so little representation in the police department. Does anyone else notice this??

nortenos and surenos   |October.25.2012 bloods and crips. clandestine nazi gangs. brown brotherhood. these folks own restaurants, beauty supply stores, auto shops, etc. for a while, the cannabis clinics were taking away some of their business in illicit cannabis sales. Thank God the Vallejo police helped the gangs by getting rid of the competition!!!

yep, militerized gangs   |October.25.2012 we have a problem, and it's not just the systematic cover-up of extra-judicial executions by certain police officers... it's the gangs. certain and simple answer to all our problems is to call out the gangs for what they are... except they own businesses and seem respectable... gangs are entrenched in our daily lives and we didn;t know it...

Disappointed   |October.25.2012 While I think this is a good idea, I question why you needed to discuss it with the city manager via VIB. Seems you would have gotten further connecting with the the city manager and a council member or two who would support this idea, who can then bring it forward to the council as a whole. I love VIB and am proudly on "the list," but I know that not everybody likes VIB. By presenting your idea here, you've likely turned off half, or nearly half, of the city council you'd need to support this idea if it is to happen. This idea came to the citizens safety committee according to your "letter." Why not bring it forward as a recommendation of the committee? Didn't you just do an end run on your own committee members?

Native Vallejoan   |October.25.2012 The only answer is to fire the corrupted officer. Nothing else. Just fire the man who can't handle the stress of his job. He can find work again as a security guard! JUST FIRE THE OFFICERS WHO GO OVER THE LINE AND MURDER INNOCENT PEOPLE. ONLY THEN WILL THERE BE TRUST AGAIN!

Concerned resident   |October.25.2012 I really hope that Mr. Keen and Mr. Kreins accept help where it is needed. there is a huge lack of trust between the community of Vallejo and the Police officers...theres a lot of officers walking around with a maucho I am superior to all kind of attitude. we should be working together and if they are scared for their lives and feel the need to shoot before asking questions new training is not going to help , we reall need the help

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